Curse

Ctb · May 04, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

It's funny that you mention NWN2. Those guys are developing the game for like 2 years now. IMO that's about the time you need to create a descent and huge RPG. Creating a new chapter every 6 months, it's simply too quick. They had 1 year to develop chapter 2, that gives me little hope for chapter 3.

An important point to consider: Guild Wars already has an engine built, so all the underlying bulwark is complete for each new chapter. All they had to do for GW:F was design and test the new data elements like skills, weapons, and such to make sure it all fit properly with the other existing elements.

Assuming they made the engine reasonably well-divorced from the data, churning out new chapters every six months shouldn't be terribly difficult.

Note that even if NWN2 adopts an engine from elsewhere, it's a whole new game so they'd almost certainly still need to tune it to their specific needs.

Kind of like a car - once the drivetrain is built, slapping different looking skins on it (Camaro and Firebird are almost exactly the same car under the skin, for example) isn't that hard.

wsmcasey · May 04, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

An important point to consider: Guild Wars already has an engine built, so all the underlying bulwark is complete for each new chapter. All they had to do for GW:F was design and test the new data elements like skills, weapons, and such to make sure it all fit properly with the other existing elements.

Assuming they made the engine reasonably well-divorced from the data, churning out new chapters every six months shouldn't be terribly difficult.

Note that even if NWN2 adopts an engine from elsewhere, it's a whole new game so they'd almost certainly still need to tune it to their specific needs.

Kind of like a car - once the drivetrain is built, slapping different looking skins on it (Camaro and Firebird are almost exactly the same car under the skin, for example) isn't that hard.

I agree, they are not re-inventing the wheel here. This should have been a slam dunk for them. They haven't completely missed the basket, but the ball is still circling the rim! Anet just needs to jump up there and push the ball in.

MSecorsky · May 04, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Rather than take one of my greybeards into Cantha to start, I created a new assassin. Been about a week now and I'm just getting to being Closer to the Stars (got to the mission area last night). From a PvE perspective... I'm amazed by the sheer number of quests I've been finding. OK, some of the quests require seeing guy "A" who sends you to guy "B"... but the point isn't guy "A" or "B", it's getting there. I still need to find a teddy bear for a guy who's kid died in the plague. Being a father, there's no way I'm abandoning that quest.

I hate the city. Flat out hate it. Which is why I love it. The environment is perfect for what they want it to be. You're in a crappy area doing what needs to be done. This translates into real life a little too well for people looking for a fantasy escape. Deal with it, imo.

Requiring to do missions and locked gates... so far, love it. I stumbled across a gate and couldn't get in. The guy clued me into doing the two team mission, which after three tries I was able to succeed on (with a third party). Pain in the arse, maybe. But you know what... I think I'm getting to be a pretty serviceable assassin. If there were shortcuts, I doubt I'd have tried as many builds/combinations. Maybe down the road I won't be quite as happy with familiar characters... but then again, they all have new skills to figure out.

Never been a farmer or runner, so I can't foster any sympathy for the whining about the lack of running or solo farmable areas. Sorry all, don't feel your pain.

Analysis so far... massive new content that's both challenging and enjoyable. The assassin class is fun, and it seems the further you get into the game the less there are. I actually got a mission invite from a monk! It's fun, flat out fun. The number of choices for armor... very cool... at least 5 different skins for the 1.5 K armors. The crafters hiding out in the cities have some of the nicest, so take your supplies and gold and kill the bad guys around them before you shop. Love the increased drop rates; I've found some really nice things so far, including one bow that's a true keeper.

Haven't been far enough to be affected by the elite mission access or lack thereof.

High grads so far, but this is just my personal opinion.

Young Hero · May 04, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

I hated this Fn game untill about the half way point."The City" is just horrible.When you start seeing trees is when it gets much better.

I also dont care for the massive amount of enemy patrolls/pop ups.2 steps to far and you have the entire map beating/casting on you.

And playing as a Ranger sucs with Henchies.The W hench's use "Charge Elite",WHY????
I pull,back track, and that dummy tank uses charge.So the group I was trying to pull doesn't follow

Still trying to find a good solo farming spot in Factions for W/Mo , W/Me builds.

Dove_Song · May 04, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by CK0

Guild Wars: Time Trial. .

ROFL you got a point there...I think they were trying to make less of a grind for the PvPer who wanted to go through the game instead of grinding out balthazar faction?

here is a thought though:

When you were a newbie in GW:P you were not all uber leeet mission killers...so the game took a while....now think how quickly could you run through the main story line as skilled as you are now (not doing bonuses)? A day max?

I'd venture to say in about the same amont of time you could complete all the mission in GW:F....

The issue may be that we veterans are just better than the game dves thought and they didn't challange us enough.

CleverLoginName · May 04, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Wow, somebody call the whaaaaaaaaambulance.

Josh · May 04, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by CK0

That is the key thing they can do right there. Add new content that would warrant the purchase. Many have said that the game feels rushed, and in many ways it is. It is such a stark contrast from Prophecies. I'd really just prefer a Prophecies game in the Cantha environment, but they had to have Alliances and Factions which is a terrible or terribly done concept (my opinion_).

Everything in this game is about rushing, and if there weren't areas that were blocked to prevent running/runners, this game would be renamed Guild Wars: Time Trial. Leveling is much faster. The entire map is much smaller than what we are used to (GW:P). Missions are time-based; bonuses are determined by how fast you finish. Challenge missions. AND THEN!, it seems they added mobs around every claustrophobic corner, just to slow you down, extending game time perhaps? Or just frustration. I will leave this one alone because many people may enjoy this. Back on topic, I just don't enjoy Factions from a PvE perspective. "Hey look! I paid ANET $50 to do delivery boy missions in a pretty exotic environment!"
Perhaps the game is so completely different in design, that even if they added content, it still would not be the same. I am hoping they will do something else in CH3. If this is the current trend, well then, so long.

Amen.

Theos · May 04, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Your point about the standalone game would be valid if it weren't for the fact that ANet has based it's business plan on selling new chapters to existing customers as well as garnering new ones. What did you think most people with Prophecies would do? For that matter, what did ANet think they'd do? Not play their faithful level 20's through Factions? Surely the vast majority of people did a 50/50 split. One new character, an assassin or ritualist, and then brought over their favorite level 20. Even more to the point is the number of new slots we got which was two. So I would think that ANet would expect us to use our level 20's over here and should have anticipated that a little better. This game is only stand alone if you don't have Prophecies.

People who are existing customers got two new possible characters, a world to explore, and dear god the ability to play Prophecies with something other than E/W/Mo. I would say that existing characters got alot more than they realise, but people have tunnel vision and only truly look forward when some of the best things are left behind in the shadows.

Ofcourse Anet knew people would bring over their level 20's, thats simple logic and Anet gave you missions that make THK's supposed difficulty a cake walk. They gave you an entire new continent to explore, new items, new farm spots, new titles. The only problem people are having is they find PvE missions to easy, sure they may not be hard to those who know how to work as a team or use henchies, but to others they are not easy. Perhaps if people didn't push themselves through the missions like mongers and simply enjoyed the stories within the quests, the scenery and everything else they'd get alot more out of it. Though it seems people don't really read anymore, they just click and kill.

You need to show me how this game is not standalone even to a prophecies character. Though we have varying opinions and I doubt either will convince the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

I agree that it's much harder when you start out on the island and level a character to 17 or whatnot. Then on the mainland you're immediately outgunned. However, that in itself doesn't make this a stand alone game. By your reckoning it would only be stand alone if we forget about all the Prophecies characters. That's not possible is it? Unless you're talking about deleting all of them. Besides, I want my two other mini-pets. Mini-pets, by the way, are a reward for keeping older characters around. It would seem ANet wants us to use our older characters.

I don't see what is wrong with making a new character and getting the maximum out of the Factions story and landscape. The fact that you can make two new characters in no way tells you "Forget those other folks you worked so hard on" it simply tells you to try something new and most probably enjoy it. The fact that you have 20's does not mean you are barred from starting a new character and enjoying a new game.

hidden_agenda · May 04, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Between my wife and myself we own 4 copies of GW:Prophecy standard edition and 1 copy of collectors. I bought 3 copies of GW:Factions pre-orders when they became available. I also just bought 2 copies of GW:Factions Standard Edition (saving 1 of the pre-orders for Collector's).

However, I have just came to the conclusion last night that I very much dislike the setup for GW Factions.

- The mission / quests that involves constantly trying to protect dim-witted NPCs.
- The poor AI.
- The repeating quest themes.
- The unapologetic attempts by Ane to shove PvP gameplay down the throads of the PvE players.

I am seriously reconsidering where my entertainment $s go...

obstegox · May 04, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I have been a devoted player of GW prophecies I loved the PvE aspect and couldnt wait for factions to be released. Now that I have it I wish i never bought it. I have tried to go back to GW:P but its useless now too, I like to farm and jut wonder around the place, but now due to factions weapons being so uber powerful its a waste of my time to even pick up GW:P.

What is with this ginormous city in Cantha, its as if they couldnt think of what they wanted the landscape to look like so they copy and pasted the same rackity shack over and over again. I hate the camera angles in the town as well its the biggest challenge if I die its due to the fact I couldnt see what the heck was going on, or ran into a wall i didnt know was there because 2 seconds ago it was transparent.

This liniar thing has got to go, Anet needs to quit crying about runners, and farming, talking about how much they hate it, well here's a news flast...its an RPG we should and will do what we want...its sort of the point, you give us a world and let us do what we want in it.

The AI of the new henchies sux too, they die all the time or get me killed its really a toss up, not to mention what we have to choose from as henchies, there are only a couple of places where you get good henchies...a good combination that is. Most of the towns have nothing but magic users, and one crappy figheter they decided to call a cut throat, whom couldnt stay alive if you put robo cop armor on.

Im tired of running in circles to be a delivery boy, these quest are by far the worste ever, no imagination what so ever, and the fact that you have to do them if you want to move foward in the game reall really sux...

I cant ascend here either what a crock, I have had my first character since december i think, she is pushing around 1 mil exp, I was proud of that...I now have a monkey i have been working on for about 2 weeks and he has 500k exp. It is no longer a big deal to have a character you have worked on and grown to love, its nothing to have a lvl 20 or 2 or 3, there are new guys that have been playing for a week with that many now and its almost degradeing to the rest of us who have worked our buts off to get where we are.

over all the game sux, and if you are reading this pryor to buying I would recomend Star Craft over this.

Obstegox

Mindtrust · May 04, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Game beaten in a few days, mostly with henchies... way to easy :´(
And like said above everything is about time in this game, so of course i got the rush feeling from the start, just didn't think the PVE part would end so soon, and the 12vs12 areas are ALWAYS empty

Dissapointed so far, i sure hope it improves!

J Unit · May 04, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Pros:
*2 new classes
*New skills
*New types of Missions
*New skins
*Fun new PvP (fort aspenwood is my favorite thing in this game)
*Easy EXP (Personally I hate leveling and think they shouldn't have even included a level system in this game)
*Easy to get max items (Collectors/Crafters, Improved golds, cheap Vigor/Absorb. There is no reason these items should be out of reach of a casual player, especially if this game has an emphasis on balance. Well done ANet.
*Trade PvP Faction for PvE items. I can farm and have fun at the same time. Awesome.

Cons:
*Only 13 new missions, the last one shouldn't count because it's only one fight you beat in 2 min. Also you only need to do one side. 8 Missions. GG
*Very easy and repetetive PvE. Oh, I need to go to that zone, fight my way to that NPC/Monster/Item/Area, and then report back to you? Game needs some quests that require thinking, puzzle type stuff that you have to figure out.
*No end game PvE. After completing the Story in two days I found myself with nothing left to do but PvP, and I'm not going to bring another character through the PvE. It is too repetetive as it is, and doing all the same quests, fighting all the same monsters again doesn't help.
*Elite missions. 2 PvE areas, that only the top 2 PvP alliances will ever get to play? Big RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up ANet. (and don't say a PvE alliance can get enough faction, there isn't enough quests to keep up with an alliance battle guild. Sure, you can run that 400 faction quest outside HzH all you want, but it isn't enough)
*Where is the huge screen filling bosses Gaile said we would get some months ago? Kuunavang? Hell no. I beat that thing first attempt with a group of henchmen. That squid thing? Also simple. interupt his res and gg, that thing can't even kill you.
*Henchmen. The new monks are garbage. Give me Alesia and Lina. At least remove Sig of Devotion, and explain to your programmers that (both!!) monks (Jamei + Tai?) shouldn't use an 8 second res chant on Talon, in the middle of combat, at the same time.
*IIRC, Back when Factions was first announced, Gaile (or someone else from anet, can't remember) said we would be getting cool things such as Guild storage, Auction House, and Hench comands, to name a few. Guess not.
*Gates. People run through because they have already finished the boring PvE once, and want to get to endgame areas for Armor, Farming, etc without repeating everything (X5 PvE chars).

Summary:
In my opinion, GW:F PvE gameplay was a complete mess, and I wont be playing through it again. The 2 new PvP types are fun (7 maps, I'm almost satisfied...), I'll stick with that for a while. I play both PvE and PvP, and one of the things about this game I really love is trading in Faction from PvP to help my PvE characters with money/armor (Jade/Amber). Another thing I love is all the new skins. I can go have fun playing PvP, get a bunch of amber, craft awesome armor, and sell the extras for cash, which I buy cool weapon skins with. That is the only good thing about Factions PvE after completing it once, having fun collecting armor/items. I'll keep playing it for a while, and overall I'm satisfied with my purchase, but was expecting more (I think there was too much hype).

Cybah · May 04, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

full agree. as a prophecies pve only player I feel very disappointed about factions.

Well, nothing more to say - all is already said.

Mr Urthadar · May 04, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

I've heard a lot of complaints about factions, mostly from PvE'rs. It seems to me, in order to make the PvE'rs happy, anet should (in chapter 3) do the following:

1) Slow down level progression.
2) Make map completely explorable.
3) Provide skill quests again
4) More missions.
5) Better quality missions and quests.

A lot of people think factions was geared torwards PvP'rs because of the fast-track to level 20. But, I don't think that the fast-track was for pvp'rs at all. Factions was designed so that your prophecies characters could enjoy most of the Factions content. Because of this, they expedited your character's level advancement. When really, they probably should have added more "pre level 20" content.

I don't have the same complaints as the PvE'rs, because I lean torwards the PvP side of GW. But I certainly understand the complaints, they just don't seem to bother me like they do everyone else. I'm actually enjoying the PvE stuff, but I only play an hour or so of it a night...

ju

Markaedw · May 04, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

My complaint is really with the henchie AI, it has gotten worse, there are many mission that simply can't be done with henchies and some areas are so compact that it is impossible to pull just a few.

Justafyme · May 04, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Oh Anet...how sad you've made me. I won't get into a long tirade listing all the things I do not like about this game...it's already been done, and quite well at that. Prophecies was popular for certain reasons, and it seems as though most of the things a lot of us enjoyed have been excluded from Factions. The biggest selling point of Prophecies to me... was the freedom I was "allowed" to enjoy. I rather liked being able to explore a "massive" world...the lack of limitation in my exploring, to this day is what kept/keeps me going back. The story line I confess.. was lack luster, but at least there was a feeling as though it had a purpose. I don't get that feeling with Factions. The sheer amount of quests/bonuses was another thing I truly enjoyed...I felt there was tremendous value for my money...again, I don't feel that way about this game.

I shall keep the faith and continue to play..in the hopes that I will find more to enjoy...so at this point, I will not say that I wish I hadn't purchased it...nor that it is a complete failure...or that it sucks. Just that I had hoped it would be better than what it currently is.

Rue The Day · May 04, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

So far the only problem I have with the game is the inability to access the elite missions. I've played Prophecies through several times and the only thing that has kept me going are areas like UW and FoW. Well when I get to the point that I've been through Factions a few times, what am I going to have left? I think it was a huge mistake to limit access to these areas in such a way. How many people will really be able to get to these?

Aside from that, I'm moving through the game at a steady pace. Completing everything in one area before moving on. While I wasn't too excited about the city area, now that i'm out in open country I'm happy.

Phoenix Avenger · May 04, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

I have to agree with pretty much what everyone has said. Factions is basicly a copy/paste of Prophesies when it comes to the storyline ("ascend", then kill the badguy) except it is about half as long, and less than 1/4th the enjoyment.

The saddest thing is that ANet seems to IGNORE us. Im afraid that the only way we can make them listen to us, the gamers, is by refusing to buy chapter 3. If they sell an extremely few amount of chapter 3 games, maybe they will finally figure out that we dont like having to pay $50 for a piece of crap that doesnt even seem to have been tested AT ALL!

hidden_agenda · May 04, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

I would be happier if only Anet just fix some of the "Protect Whatshisname" mission / quests. This ranges from Master Tofu (oops, I meant Togo), Mhenlo, Danika, the assorted Canthan Guards, etc.

This is not to say that there weren't such quests in the Prophecy campaign (remember http://www.crithitcomics.com/botmanga09.htm), but at least one was not bottlenecked on this.

In contrast, now what I've found is that I tend to have to do the quest once and fail it due to the foolishness of the NPCs. Then redo the quest / mission, clear the whole board, and the escort the NPCs to their destination through a now-empty path. It is time-consuming and frustrating...

It is really beyond me why Anet couldn't make it so that the NPCs only die when the players team dies.

Age · May 04, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

I kind of like that 1.5k ringmail armor as I always liked it anways I know that chapter 3 will be more PvE orriented and hopefully more exploreable areas.There is still lots of areas of chapter 1 that could be opened up.